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B&G; Message Board. The band you saw last night, equipment for sale, need band members…this board is all yours [
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Lules
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12/11/2003
15:29:50
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Subject: Best Band Ever Seen!
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How about we all talk about the best band ever seen. If bands seen happen to be rubbish, then blame the promoters who book the bands having obviously not even listened to their demos!!!! The best band I have ever seen is MEETIN’ OF MINDS, they rock, shame the promoters who book them are never actually there to watch the gigs, eh Ming!
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M.O.M
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12/11/2003
17:39:06
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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Thanks Lules, glad to see we still get a mention on message boards occasionally. For anyone who is interested M.O.M are headlining at The Brixton Telegraph on 23rd Nov 03, on at 9.45pm sharp…. for those of you who haven’t had the pleasure yet our music is urban, rootsy dub with a bit of rock, rap, soul and blues thrown in for good measure. This will be our last gig for a good few months while we concentrate on recording our debut, so we Hope to see some new faces on the 23rd. Peace and light……….
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Ming The Mong
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12/11/2003
17:57:54
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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Q- It was my day off on the 28th of September. I was at West Ham v Millwall that day and on the lash with some mates from both sides until late. I had already seen 4 gigs at the Bull & Gate that week (he says checking diary) 22nd, 24th, 25th & 26th. If I am not there then another one of our team is. How many gigs would you like me to attend in one week before I am eventually sectioned Lules!?
As promoters we listen to ALL the demos we are sent, bloody painful it is sometimes too!
If there were better bands around with the followings to match the criteria of the Bull & Gate, then life would be so much sweeter for us all.
Question our integrety by all means, that’s what we are here for, we are in the firing line, fair enough, we book the acts, we booked Meeting Of Minds. With that in mind we are more than entitled, in my opinion, to voice our opinions on the bands we book, good or bad.
Please don’t accuse us of not attending the gigs, cause we are amoung the ‘very few’ London promoters who actually do throughout the week.
You are welcome to hunt me down or the promoter for the night whenever you like, it’s simple, just ask the door person if we are not evident, they’ll point us out.
As it happens I am always talking about the best bands I’ve seen, see my Breakneck Static thread for one.
Sleep well.
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Lules
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13/11/2003
12:36:44
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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Hi Ming, didn’t mean to offend you, I just think that it is getting harder and harder for bands to get a good following when poeple who regularly attend live venues (like me!) in the hope of seeing a good band, end up seeing not so good bands. This in turn puts people off going to the venues and this makes it increasingly difficult for new (good!) bands to get a good mailing list together. This is a problem for a few of the good bands on the circuit e.g M.O.M, NEMO to name a couple and having spoken to them after gigs. (You may not agree with me as their music style may not be to your taste) So when a band doesn’t have a huge fan base, it is not always from their lack of trying. Also, a Sunday night is gonna be much harder to get people out to watch a gig than say a Wed, Thur, Fri or Sat anyway, this is by no means a clue as to whether the band are good or bad. I have watched many a crap band with 50-70 people in their crowd who are re-booked because of this, and not because they deserve to be. I also feel that if a band that is obviously crap from their demo get booked for gigs, especially somewhere well known like the Bull, it gives them a false sense that they are good, they then come back and read message boards for feedback and see people slagging them off, which is probably quite soul destroying for them, would probably be much easier to just not book them for a gig in the first place, then they won’t waste their time, and regular gig goers like me (who are a dying breed)won’t waste our money. Being the softie that I am, it makes me feel sorry for them. Rather than slag bands off, why not give them tips on how they can improve their sound, stage prescence etc., coz obviously their friends/family are gonna tell them they are good regardless. As a gigger for a good 12 years now, I used to rely on the promoters opinion of bands booked to make me come out of my cosy hole and see new bands, and about 6-8 years ago there used to be at least 5 good bands billed a week, but over the past couple of years I am lucky if I enjoy 2 a month. As an ‘ex A&R;’ for a small independent I used to speak to promoters about what their opinion was of a band that played the day before that I may have heard a mention of, the reply I would get was usually on the lines of, ‘not too sure, I wasn’t here, soundman said they were okay, barstaff quite liked it, but they only brought 10-15 people so I may not book them again!’ To me that just says I couldn’t give a toss how good they are, they didn’t bring enough punters in, and I didn’t make enough money that night….. And no, I am not saying you have said that Ming, I haven’t actually met you, well not recently anyway, but I’m sure you understand where I am coming from, and not many promoters have message boards I can rant on like you have, so your board gets the brunt of it.
Out of curiosity, what style/genre of music do you have a preference for?
p.s My last post wasn’t a personal dig at you really, just the London circuit in general.
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Ming The Mong
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13/11/2003
15:27:44
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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No offence taken Lules, just felt the need to explain, that’s what we are here for.
Where to start…
I sympathise greatly with your views most of which I need not elaborate on because they are fact and most of, I agree with.
Question is, how can a venue survive if it doesn’t fill the holes left when there are not enough decent bands around to fill them?
Answer is, it can’t. It will go bust, there will be no bands at all, good, bad or ugly.
We certainly take the MUSIC as the most important consideration when booking any band. We are constantly trying to work out ways to put some quite amazing and deserving acts on from around the country and across the world. It obviously prooves difficult at times if they can not pull a crowd or even just a modest one.
It’s often the shit bands you talk of which pay the bills which enable us to put on bands like, recently, Tudosok from Hungary or RK 130 from Poland, Oceansize from north of Watford somewhere, or Man From Uranus USA via Cambridge. Who all make, it has to be said, a huge effort and help us to make the gigs work to the best extent possible. We always persue Press, Radio, industry coverage and the bands persue flyers, word of mouth etc…
Then, sadly, you get average sounding bands like The Zipper, Taxi To Mars, Freud, Creeps, Debris Slide, to name but a few, who have next to no-one turn up at their gigs because they make no effort to promote themselves and take the lot of us for a ride and limit our chances to ever move forward from this vicsious circle that is the London music scene today.
It stinks really mate, cause in an ideal world we’d just be putting on anything which sounds quality and binning the rest for all our sakes.
You don’t need me to point out that we are not living in an ideal world. We have to juggle bands I’m afraid, no fun at times, but when a great gig comes along it’s worth it I can tell you.
There is also an argument in favour of people just having fun with music, meaning non artistic.
i e four mates having a bash and inviting their friends and family down.
Having said that we are always here to answer any queries on any of our nights, 020 8806 8062 or via this sites e-mail address. We are happy to talk through any line up for you.
We are also about to add a new feature to the listings page on this site which will guide you through the flavours and details of each night as comprehensivly as we can.
I could ramble on all day on this subject but we have a backlog of demos due to the postal strike to get through so I’d best leave it here for now.
My persnal taste doesn’t effect gig bookings because it’s part of my job to spot people who are good at what they are trying to do whether I like it or not.
For the record Lules I was brought up on the punk rock bands of the late 70’s early 80’s. My tastes are varied, anything from Can to Devo to Caberet Voltaire to Bruce Forsyth live at the London Palladium!.
I have been in a few bands to, as has everybody who currently works on the B&G; promotions side, so I/we know what bands go through and try to be as sympathetic as possible.
I am also an avid gig goer and go to plenty of gigs outside of the B&G.;
We may not be quite the dying breed you suggest, I’ve been to plenty of sold out gigs recently, even the Half Man Half Biscuit gig I went to last month at the Mean Fiddler was sold out! a 1st for them I’d imagine.
Laters for now 😉
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jason nime
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14/11/2003
18:05:58
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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The best band I’ve ever seen was ‘The Great Unknown’ at The Verge last night. They were hot! I think they’re playing the Bull & Gate Dec 2nd. I advise you check em out.
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k
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18/11/2003
09:29:42
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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To Ming the Mong
In response to your comments above.
I am in one of the “average sounding” bands you mentioned, Taxi To Mars.
I respect the fact that we’re probably not your cup of tea musically but can I just make a few points in our defence.
Firstly, I hope you will accept an apology from us for the low attendance on the night we played. A combination of the mess on the northern line and trouble on Network South East (we are from North Essex) meant that most of the people who had said to us they would come (probably around 30) ended up dropping out on or around the day of the gig. Tuesday’s aren’t the easiest day to get people out either as you will no doubt appreciate. What can I say, shit happens and believe you me we would rather be playing in front of 50-100 people than 10 or so.
The fact that bigger bands’ (Oceansize etc) gigs are more successful is not really surprising is it. They have record deals, cds out and probably more people working around them on promotion etc.
As you say you’ve been in bands and are sympathetic I’m sure you’ll know that we put in a fair deal of time, money and effort into writing, rehearsing, recording and trying to get people to come to our gigs whilst also all having full time jobs, relationships, kids in some cases, mortgages etcetc. You don’t have to get the violin out cos we enjoy it, its escapism of the best kind but we certainly wouldn’t after all that deliberately let ourselves down or a venue that is good enough to put us on by not trying to get punters along. However, on the night events conspired to screw it up.
With this in mind I think it would have better if you hadn’t personally named bands in such a negative light. You don’t know all the facts and it shows you to be petty and vindictive. It’s not particularly nice to be labelled as some sort of symptom of a disease that is blighting the London gig scene after one bad night which had mitigating circumstances in our view. You have your opinion but it might have been better to keep the personal bit out of it.
Cheers.
Ps we are trying very hard to be better than average sounding but if it was that easy we’d all be in successful bands, wouldn’t we ??
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k
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18/11/2003
09:29:45
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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To Ming the Mong
In response to your comments above.
I am in one of the “average sounding” bands you mentioned, Taxi To Mars.
I respect the fact that we’re probably not your cup of tea musically but can I just make a few points in our defence.
Firstly, I hope you will accept an apology from us for the low attendance on the night we played. A combination of the mess on the northern line and trouble on Network South East (we are from North Essex) meant that most of the people who had said to us they would come (probably around 30) ended up dropping out on or around the day of the gig. Tuesday’s aren’t the easiest day to get people out either as you will no doubt appreciate. What can I say, shit happens and believe you me we would rather be playing in front of 50-100 people than 10 or so.
The fact that bigger bands’ (Oceansize etc) gigs are more successful is not really surprising is it. They have record deals, cds out and probably more people working around them on promotion etc.
As you say you’ve been in bands and are sympathetic I’m sure you’ll know that we put in a fair deal of time, money and effort into writing, rehearsing, recording and trying to get people to come to our gigs whilst also all having full time jobs, relationships, kids in some cases, mortgages etcetc. You don’t have to get the violin out cos we enjoy it, its escapism of the best kind but we certainly wouldn’t after all that deliberately let ourselves down or a venue that is good enough to put us on by not trying to get punters along. However, on the night events conspired to screw it up.
With this in mind I think it would have better if you hadn’t personally named bands in such a negative light. You don’t know all the facts and it shows you to be petty and vindictive. It’s not particularly nice to be labelled as some sort of symptom of a disease that is blighting the London gig scene after one bad night which had mitigating circumstances in our view. You have your opinion but it might have been better to keep the personal bit out of it.
Cheers.
Ps we are trying very hard to be better than average sounding but if it was that easy we’d all be in successful bands, wouldn’t we ??
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Ming The Mong
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18/11/2003
13:07:39
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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K, I’m neither being petty or vindictive, just stating the facts. If you don’t like what you see in black and white (or white and claret) then I’m sorry, but what else can I say.
Why not name names? people are more than happy to critisize us as a venue when they feel like it.
I’m afraid by participating in this ‘scene’ you put yourselves in the firing line like it or not, you have to accept the negative as well as the positive, we do.
For the record Oceansize are not a big band and they are from a lot further afield than north Essex. They probably don’t have full-time jobs to fall back on when things go pear-shaped as we haven’t.
As I said though, there is certainly an argument for ‘people just having fun with music’ and seeking the escapism you suggest, music/art is the finest form of escapism and is dear to us all involved here, it comes at a price though, what doesn’t?
You must appreciate though that there are a lot of people in this business trying to earn a living from their efforts who make sacrifices to fulfill their goals.
Where I appreciate the tube problems didn’t help you the week of said appearence, I would however pick out the comment ‘Tuesday’s aren’t the easiest day to get people out either as you will no doubt appreciate’ and suggest – don’t do a gig on a Tuesday night then.
Didn’t mean to slur you personally, it’s nothing personal, just wanted to mention a few examples off the top of my head at the time of responding/writing to Lules. Sorry if I offended you but I am passionate about this business as I’m sure you are about your band and like to speak my mind. Same goes for the others mentioned.
Best band I saw last week was Carcassette on Tuesday 11th. Ex Associates apparently, first gig to. Bit more beefed up than the bedroom sounding, techno/samples CD demo we’d heard.
Full band assembled powering away over the bedroom backbone took it to another level. Back in January we think, worth a Frank Butchers.
MTM
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k
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18/11/2003
15:11:10
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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MTM,
Thanks for the reply.
Without getting into a verbal tennis match :
“K, I’m neither being petty or vindictive, just stating the facts. If you don’t like what you see in black and white (or white and claret) then I’m sorry, but what else can I say.”
You might not think you were being but the tone of your response definitely came over that way to me. I say potato you say etc etc.
“Why not name names? people are more than happy to critisize us as a venue when they feel like it.”
You are generalizing there….by that token you should have generalized about bands letting you down not named names….
”I’m afraid by participating in this ‘scene’ you put yourselves in the firing line like it or not, you have to accept the negative as well as the positive, we do. “
If you want to review us and criticize the music, constructively or otherwise fair enough. Within that framework a comment about not bringing a crowd would be more acceptable rather than a comment based purely on a business level. No one from the Bull and Gate approached us on the night to ask why such a small crowd turned up, if they had we could have explained the situation. The Bull and Gate people who were there as we were packing up gave us some really good feedback (hopefully genuine).
“For the record Oceansize are not a big band and they are from a lot further afield than north Essex. They probably don’t have full-time jobs to fall back on when things go pear-shaped as we haven’t. “
I didn’t say they were a big band I said they were bigger than us…put Oceansize in a search engine and see what comes back, then try us. They are semi established. Full time jobs doesn’t mean well paid….just a necessary evil I’m afraid.
“Where I appreciate the tube problems didn’t help you the week of said appearence, I would however pick out the comment ‘Tuesday’s aren’t the easiest day to get people out either as you will no doubt appreciate’ and suggest – don’t do a gig on a Tuesday night then. “
Fair point but if you don’t take what you’re offered you don’t do many gigs and as I said we were hoping to have more people there. By the time we realized this wasn’t going to be the case we were at the soundcheck on the night.
I hope you can see that we were genuinely disappointed about people not getting there and making it a better gig for all concerned especially since we really like the venue but I felt it was a bit harsh of you to name names in the manner you did(as I’ve said before). We’ll have to agree to differ.
Nice to have a banter anyway.
All The Best……..
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Ming The Mong
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18/11/2003
15:59:52
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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Could go on and on… but I get the impression you’ve said your piece and have moved on.
For the record:
I appreciate your disappointment at the numbers at your gig as I’m sure you do ours, we’ll draw a line. I know you have had good turnouts at the Dublin Castle in the past.
‘if you don’t take what you’re offered you don’t do many gigs’
If you take gigs which you know will not work you will eventually run out of options to play at all, as venues will not have you back. Best to play a couple of really good/well attended shows a year in any given area than six or seven watered down affairs.
‘If you want to review us and criticize the music, constructively or otherwise fair enough. Within that framework a comment about not bringing a crowd would be more acceptable rather than a comment based purely on a business level’
I was originally discussing the current state of the London music scene with the first poster which unfortunately (sadly)is somewhat effected by the business aspects of the subject.
I’d be happy to review and comment on your music if we had time to run a reviews page.
We did have one once on a previous site but sadly just didn’t have the time to keep it going.
I’ll finally add that we do not approach bands on the night to question turnouts because the night is all about the music and nine times out of ten there is nothing to be said, it will just mean no re-booking because we can’t afford to re-book the band. If the band feels the need to explain the situation we are all ears and will do our best to offer advice or to find a solution to suit both parties for future gigs.
Anyway I’ll shutup for now. I am happy to continue if you wish Re Oceansize.
Good luck,
Thanks for your feedback.
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Human Number
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26/11/2003
00:47:56
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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Combat magazine Nov 2003.
Article: ‘How to be Successful’
Quote: ‘Before you decide to put yourself in the public eye, you should be aware that you must be talented in yoiur chosen field’ . . . .
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ignoratio elenchi
Guest
27/11/2003
00:00:35
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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…and literate.
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Human Number
Guest
27/11/2003
10:17:40
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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BOOM BOOM! Good to know people are taking the trouble to read 😉 . . . .
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rockerz1640
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02/12/2003
13:52:10
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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Best band I have ever seen live is Duplex Gage. They headlined the Barfly a week ago on Saturday night and despite half of their fan base being passed-out at home after the Rugby final, there were still 100 fans in the club. It was breathtaking to watch the crowd sing the words to the songs. This is an unsigned band I’m talking about with songs that their fans know the words to. Why? They GIVE AWAY their CDs at gigs to anyone who wants them. They give away T-shirts, stickers, whatever. They also pay for private coaches to bring their fans from South London to Camden. I don’t know how they do it but I know WHY they do it. These guys LOVE what they are doing. The songs are fantastic, listenable, memorable and original. Their singer is charismatic, their bass player is American (OK, so we won’t hold THAT against him) and engages the crowd. I’ve seen so many bands who think they are "above" their audience. God, I saw Radiohead last week and they seemed positively blase’ about their crowd…almost bored! Duplex Gage cares about their crowd, they involve the crowd, they hang out with the crowd afterwards. Are they making any money? Take a good guess. They are playing at Bull & Gate in two days (Thursday 4 December at 9:15). Do yourselves a favour and GO SEE THIS BAND! You won’t regret it…and I’m sure you’ll get a free CD for your trouble.
cheers
Erica
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nevercomearound
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02/12/2003
16:29:20
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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I’ll second that comment on Duplex Gage being the best live band in London. I’ve seen them 3 times since June and each time they kicked rock and roll ass. Barfly was incredible last week. I’ve downloaded all their songs for free at www.duplexgage.com. Great songs, brilliant melodies and awesome keyboards. I’ll be at Bull & Gate Thursday night with a pint in one hand and my fist in the air!
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bassboy
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02/12/2003
18:38:26
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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i gotta say best band ive seen is opustrees who coincidentally play the bng on weds 3rd december ! well you gotta blow your own trumpet ! just wanna say that this is one of our fave venues,like networking with the other bands and the sound system is pretty awesome.we all gotta start somewhere and i cant think of a better london venue to showcase your work.welldone, see you wednesday !
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Anonymous
Guest
11/12/2003
12:18:14
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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the unstrung
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didi
Guest
11/12/2003
16:54:13
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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i like Paper Planes…. they’re pretty good….
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Pete
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17/12/2003
16:59:58
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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Quite simply, it was the Ju Ju Babies @ The Underworld a week or so ago. Nothing quite like it on the circuit at the moment, and as afr away from the "four guys and a guitar" format we’re all bored with as you can get. Catch them if you can. Stuff on www.jujubabies.co.uk
Pete.
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tinker
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21/12/2003
18:15:46
| RE: Best Band Ever Seen!
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Easily This Sudden Life – who played the B&G; last night. Transcendent stuff and the front-of-house sound was A1. Their frontman is a BORN performer -can’t remember when I last saw someone work a stage (and the area around it) so well. The songs are melodic, intense and powerful. GO SEE!
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